Las Vegas Derailed
February 1, 2010
It’s a bad time to be a fan of rail transit in Las Vegas.
The application for our proposed high-speed Maglev train from Anaheim to Las Vegas has been denied.
So much for that.
Supposedly, not all is lost, however. Backers of the “DesertXpress” train from Victorville to Las Vegas see this as a positive development since their project is still in the works, and the ruling eliminates what would ostensibly be their primary competitor.
In theory.
Frankly, if anyone thinks Californians are going to all of a sudden discover rail travel and abandon their vehicles, they’re higher than I have ever been in my life.
I used to live directly on top of the Los Angeles Red Line subway, and I rode it almost daily, but the greatest thing about the train was the fact that I almost never had to compete for a seat. Keep in mind that this was a train that traversed the most densely populated, transit-oriented population in Southern California, and not even they rode it in droves.
Westlake (the neighborhood immediately west of Downtown) has a population density of 45,000 people per square mile. To put this into perspective, the city of San Francisco has 17,000 people per square mile. Central LA (Downtown, Westlake, Mid-Wilshire, and Hollywood) is on par with Brooklyn with regards to density.
Los Angeles as a core city is somewhat underrated. For some reason, everyone focuses on the freeways and the sprawl, but I lived in central Los Angeles for my entire tenure in the city, and I rarely used a freeway. I walked a lot, biked a lot, and used public transit a great deal. I make jokes about LA as much as the next person, but everything north of Pico, east of Doheny, south of Sunset, and west of Alameda defies the stereotype of the city in general. It’s a huge, dense, urban core in which most East Coast transplants have little trouble adapting. The San Fernando Valley, Inland Empire, and Orange County are giant 7-11′s … but central LA is as much a “real” city as any other major town.
To illustrate my point, I fished out a few photos I took of LA while I lived there:
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- Los Angeles, California
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- Los Angeles, California
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- Los Angeles, California
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- Los Angeles, California
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- Los Angeles, California
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- Los Angeles, California
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- Los Angeles, California
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- Los Angeles, California
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- Los Angeles, California
Beverly Hills 90210 grossly misrepresents the existence of the overwhelming majority of Los Angelenos. Melrose Place, and most other show set in the city tend to be full of inaccurate stereotypes about the town.
There is one stereotype I do feel comfortable making myself, however.
People who utilize mass transit in Los Angeles are not a demographic that frequently vacations in Las Vegas. I took the #2 Bus from time to time, and on many of those trips, announcements were made in Spanish, and Spanish only. I was often the only honky, and it was mainly lower working class.
Regardless of where people live in California, urban, suburban, or rural … damn near every person owns a car. Even if they only use it for longer trips, they have one parked somewhere.
This being the case, I cannot even fathom the success of a high-speed train between the two states.
Sure, *I* would use it, but even I am cognizant enough to realize that I’m a very atypical Southwest resident.
Much like the LA Subway, if the train started at the intersection of Hollywood and Vine, ran 280 miles, and stopped directly in the lobby of the MGM Grand … I don’t think it would see a large amount of ridership.
The DesertXpress will not even do this, however. It will run from Las Vegas to … Victorville. After you have already perfectly timed your drive to beat traffic, broken free from the major population centers of Southern California, and climbed the Cajon Pass … why in the F**K would you park your car in Victorville and ride the rest of the way?
This would be like planning a cross country trip by driving from LA to Amarillo and then getting on a plane and flying the rest of the way to NYC. Then, when you are ready to come home, you fly back to Amarillo, then drive to LA.
It … makes … no … sense.
I’ve made the drive between LA and LV countless times, and upon arriving in Victorville I’ve never thought “Gee, I wish there was some kind of public transit to take me the rest of the way”. Ever.
It would be the worst of both worlds. You would still have to drive the most difficult part of the route, you would still have to pay an extra fare and wait for a train, and once you got to Vegas … you would have to rent a car or hire a cab.
The DesertXpress train will make a visit to Vegas from California substantially more expensive and inconvenient, and I think it will be about as popular as the Monorail.
Speaking of …
The Las Vegas Monorail Company has stated that it will *never* generate enough revenue to pay off its debts, and has finally made it official by declaring bankruptcy.
While many reasons have been cited for the failure of the monorail, it’s now clear what the system needs to do to be successful.
Extend the line to Victorville. Apparently, that’s where all of the pent-up demand lies.
Anyway, if you have been waiting for real, viable, rail transit to make an appearance in Las Vegas … keep waiting.
Written by ChuckReis on February 1, 2010 at 2:35 am
Weird, I just saw a story on Obama’s High Speed rail plans (NC is getting Charlotte to Raleigh which then heads to Richmond and DC) and they showed a map of the High speed going to Vegas. The major media is never wrong.
Written by Rex on February 1, 2010 at 2:37 am
DesertXpress is technically “high speed”, but not mag-lev.
The Mag would have gone further … to Anaheim.
Of the two, that one would have been far more viable, IMHO.
Written by Corby on February 1, 2010 at 4:15 am
California’s Indian casino lobby will NEVER let any sort of transportation system connect Las Vegas to southern California.
Written by Ron from MI on February 1, 2010 at 4:24 am
I don’t think LA and LV need to be connected by a high-speed rail system. Californians are very regional in terms of their transportation: they take either a Southwest flight from LAX to LAS, or they simply get on I-15 and travel mile after mile just to get to LV. Southern Californians are very car-oriented, whereas The Bay Area have all the options: car, plane, bus, mass transit, Amtrak.
The same goes more/less with Metro Detroiters. If someone from Metro Detroit wants to go to Chicago, they have all the options: They usually fly from DTW to MDW via Southwest, from DTW to ORD by other carriers, take a Greyhound or charter bus, Amtrak, to get on I-94 or take the Indiana and Ohio Turnpikes.
People from LA have little choices. It’s either plane or car, and a Greyhound isn’t always considered.
If people who want to come to Vegas (including from LA to LV) they should also have the other option: Amtrak.
But there’s a big, big problem. Amtrak for some reason DOES NOT MAKE ANY STOPS IN LAS VEGAS COMING FROM ANYWHERE IN THE COUNTRY! The only stop in Nevada by Amtrak is in RENO!
When I found out that they (Amtrak) didn’t have a stop in Vegas, i was one pissed off son of a bitch. I did NOT wan’t to go through TSA security.
If they can’t get Amtrak to stop here, how in the hell is a high-speed train going to make all the difference? It makes no sense to me. Restore Amtrak service to Vegas! that’s the only solution.
By the way, great shots of LA. Those look very vintage’90′s; I noticed in one of those shots a TWA building. My guess it was probably sometime in that period, before American bought them out.
Written by ColinFromLasVegas on February 1, 2010 at 3:04 pm
You point out a lot of areas of concern regarding these proposed trains.
The Desert XPress is an interesting idea, but it’s stupid for Nevada to harp on something that only goes to Victorville, California, with no stops between (mainly because there ain’t anywhere interesting to stop…unless you just want to pee in the desert). And, though faster, it’s based on the existing train system in the U.S. The drawback to this is we’re leaving it up to a cash strapped California to complete the leg from Victorville to Los Angeles (or wherever on the coast it’s supposed to go). Don’t hold your breath. California has WAY bigger things to tackle than this. It’ll never get done.
The mag-lev system sounds neat. But it’s going to take a lot of money to do it. More money than the Pacific Southwest States can afford. And they are also only wanting it to go from Las Vegas to Los Angeles. There don’t seem to be any far reaching interest to go anywhere else.
Monorail? 2011. That’s when I predict it will start to be dismantled. If not dismantled, it’ll be turned into the world’s largest flower pot and hanging gardens.
I have a better idea.
But the train system shouldn’t only just go from Las Vegas-Los Angeles or be select only for the Pacific Southwest. I say East Coast to West Coast, and going through Las Vegas. And the train system they should try to build is that same one they have in France. I watched a video of this train that goes just about as fast as an F-14. It was unbelievable speeds, comparable to the bullet train system in Japan (which I’ve ridden on before). I have saved a video of it and it’s amazing to watch.
Now, THAT’S something that would benefit Las Vegas. And not only Las Vegas, but pretty much most of the U.S.
I say the key to everything is starting it from the East Coast and expanding it to the West Coast (or vice versa).
Just my thoughts.
Written by blueboar on February 1, 2010 at 8:00 pm
@Ron — There used to be Amtrak service to Vegas, probably until about ’01. But due to cut backs on subsidies from Congress and low ridership, it was discontinued. Which actually gives weight to Rex’s argument that people wouldn’t ride a new train. They didn’t ride the old one. And I believe the Amtrak went all the way to Union Station in LA. Of course, a counter argument could be made that people might ride were the train faster. But that’s still a pretty big “might” and it certainly wouldn’t happen with the train ending in Victorville.
@Colin — Yes, France has some great trains. But it’s also is a bit less than 80% the size of Texas (plus has more than 2x the population of TX to support the trains). It’s unrealistic to expect to see a high speed transcontinental train in the US in our lifetime. The costs are too high and the political will too low.
The 8 billion that Obama proposed for high speed rail is a drop in the bucket, and split up amongst several projects, doesn’t amount to much. A bunch of high speed lines will not be springing up from this. The money is too diluted. However, there will be several track and switch improvements made as a result around the country. For example, improvements made with the money might shave something like 20 minutes off the time of the trip between DC and NYC. Now that’s not miraculous, but it’s attainable and on a high passenger volume route like that, worthwhile.
@Rex — Cool shots of LA. I’ve normally been stuck out in the valley when I’ve visited, and I detest the Valley. Looks like I’d like Downtown a lot better. By the way did you live in that building at Wilshire or just grab some shots from it?
Written by Jason on February 2, 2010 at 1:41 am
The waiting is the hardest part
Every day you see one more card
You take it on faith, you take it to the heart
The waiting is the hardest part.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uMyCa35_mOg
Written by Phouchg on February 2, 2010 at 4:40 am
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gUERtAe73NI
That could work – there’s a disco on board!
Written by Ace on February 4, 2010 at 4:01 pm
Years ago my then wife and I took the Amtrak train from Anaheim to Vegas. It stopped at The Plaza so we just collected out bags and checked into the hotel. Very convenient and the trip was pleasant with great scenery and the bar was open on the train.
I hate the LA-LV-LA drive by car.
Sad about the monorail, I was a frequent user as I am lazy and don’t like to drive after a few cocktails. Maybe topless attendants would increase business?
Written by Arliss Adams on April 20, 2010 at 7:38 am
There would probably be a certain amount of people who would take a high speed rail, but L.A. is a town that loves its cars, even when they are stacked up ten deep on the freeway. An L.A. Times columnist once described it perfectly: A series of suburbs in desperate search of a downtown!
I love both cities to write about. I’m an author with two new novels coming out in the next few months.