Sucker
June 18, 2010
Well look who just pulled their heads out of their collective asses …
You know, I just got done lavishing praise on our local mainstream media (in my own way, of course) — and no sooner did the ink dry on the screen before my new daily newspaper of choice completely insulted me to my digital face.
Even though we’re all a bunch of ad-centric tools as well, this my friends, is why real bloggers are still the reporters of the future:
http://www.lasvegassun.com/news/2010/jun/18/blackjack-paying-6-5-making-headway/
You see, I learned something today when I fired up my web browser. Apparently, get this …. there is a new form of Blackjack sweeping Las Vegas, and this new variation offers lower payouts than the traditional game.
Yeah, I kid you not.
From what I hear, this new creation is called “6:5 Blackjack”
WHO KNEW???!!!
In related breaking news: The Boardwalk Hotel will be demolished to make room for a new MGM/Mirage complex.
The Sun’s article begins, and I quote:
“In recent months, more than two dozen tables paying 6-5 for blackjacks have surfaced in Las Vegas, in some cases replacing games that paid the traditional 3-2. With the traditional payoff, a blackjack on a bet of $10 wins $15, but with 6-5 odds it wins only $12.”
Jesus Leaping Christ on a purple pogo stick, are the reporters at the Sun high on phenobarbital?
Who is the editor of the newspaper, Rip … Van … Fucking … Winkle?
Seriously, these guys are slower than Corky from Life Goes On.
“More than two dozen tables have surfaced in recent months”?
Really?
I mean … REALLY?
Sure, the statement that there are “more than two dozen” 6:5 tables in Las Vegas is technically accurate, just like the statement “five hundred is more than eight” is technically accurate. Both statements understate the issue, though.
There aren’t twenty four 6:5 BJ tables in Las Vegas, there are hundreds of such tables.
Also, what, exactly, would one consider “recent months”?
We’re a solid 5 years into the 6:5 takeover. By “recent months” does the Sun mean “the recent 72 months?”
Look, there is nothing wrong with the Sun doing an article about 6:5 Blackjack. I very much welcome and appreciate it. Printing it as if they are blowing the cover off of a new phenomenon is a little bit strange, however.
Hell, as a blogger who has been covering this issue for years, I think I’m going to sue the Sun for theft of intellectual property. $75,000 sounds reasonable for damages. Does anyone have the number for a good shuyster law firm? Preferably, one incorporated as an LLC. Oh, and one with a cryptic name beginning with a positive and affirming word such as “right”. You know, so that when the whole legal thing goes to shit and people start making fun of the lawsuit, it won’t be my name which will be dragged through the mud.
“I swear it wasn’t me, I didn’t want the seventy five G’s, it was those goddamn greedy lawyers!”
Anyway, now that the Sun has let the cat out of the bag about this “6:5 Blackjack” thing, I will concede that the rest of the article made for an interesting read. Parties from both sides of the issue offered their perspectives, and the main person who took the pre-6:5 side came off as quite dishonest in my opinion.
For instance, casino consultant Max Rubin offered the following:
“Major Las Vegas casinos have too much overhead to be able to afford 3-2 games at low limits of $1 or $5, Rubin says. The low house edge on blackjack, close to break-even for skilled players and 1.5 percent for beginners, isn’t enough to pay the staff and maintenance costs resulting from that casino traffic, he says”
What Rubin failed to explain, was how Las Vegas made it from the 1960′s through the mid-2000′s with 3:2 payouts. The mid-90′s to the early 00′s alone was one of the largest boom periods in Vegas history, and this was accomplished with normal Blackjack odds. The paper did not challenge Mr. Rubin on this fact, because Mr. Rubin is ostensibly an expert on the matter. The great thing about being an expert, is that you can just throw any quote against the wall and it will typically stick lest the non-expert reporter embarrass himself by asking a silly followup question.
Not to be outdone by his own words, however, Rubin offers the most interesting quote of the entire article:
“One way to measure value is how much fun people are having,” he says. “Sometimes it’s OK to have sucker bets if the suckers are enjoying themselves.”
There you have it folks, a concession from someone in the industry that 6:5 Blackjack is indeed a game for suckers.
Why is 6:5 Blackjack more “fun” than 3:2 Blackjack?
Well, Rubin doesn’t say. He implies that people are able to play at lower limits because of the crap payouts, but I played $1 and $3 normal Blackjack for years, and I usually lost whatever I bought in with.
Regardless, the main apologist for six five in the article concedes that the 6:5 bets are sucker bets. For those of you who still routinely play it … that should mean something. It should remove all doubt that you are suckers.
No longer should I get emails informing me that I am a condescending prick for making fun of people who pack 6:5 tables that are directly adjacent to 3:2 tables. An expert has officially verified my claim that you are suckers, and all outrage should now be directed to him.
Unfortunately, for those who still enjoy the party pit vibe, regular Blackjack games are getting harder and harder to find. The Golden Gate and Las Vegas Club still retain (mostly) normal limits, but my guess is that even they are waiting for an opportunity to make a wholesale switch.
In my opinion, it’s only a matter of time before every game under $25 pays 6:5. Las Vegas is just waiting for intelligent gamblers to die off (it shouldn’t take long). Simply put, for mere mortals of modest financial mean, the entire game of Blackjack is on borrowed time. At least in Las Vegas.
Now that a major newspaper has spoken out on the matter, maybe, just maybe … more people will pay attention and ask the pits for normal odds games.
Dare to dream.
Sucker.
Written by toastcmu on June 18, 2010 at 10:13 pm
Hey, when the suckers think 6:5 blackjack is the norm, we can bring out this thing called “Even Money” for blackjack. They won’t know the difference, and we’ll make even more money. Brilliant I say!
Too bad that blackjack continues to be less of a money maker, because I envision the day that us blackjack players will be relegated to the corner while everyone plays on their party pits of Let it Ride, 3 card poker, and casino war. I guess I should start taking up craps…
Written by Bob on June 18, 2010 at 10:14 pm
thanks for the story. Quick ?, are the odds clearly posted at the tables?
Written by wayoutb on June 18, 2010 at 10:42 pm
The ‘Party Pits’ could probably get away with even-money blackjacks with no complaints. Are guys there to gamble or ogle babes? If they really wanted to gamble, they would avoid 6:5 like the plague. I think most guys that play there are losers that get to talk to (and gape at) women that wouldn’t give them the time of day in any other venue. They don’t care if they’re losing faster than they would at a 3:2 game; to them it’s kind of like going to a strip club, but cheaper.
But these are not good days for blackjack players in Vegas, unless you have a huge bankroll.
I’m astonished that some casino has not taken advantage of the fact that most of the existing table games in Vegas suck. They could monopolize a niche market by getting back to the ‘roots’ of Las Vegas, with great games and odds, and minimal ‘heat’. Years ago, this is the reputation that the ‘Horseshoe’ had, but those days are long gone.
Written by blueboar on June 18, 2010 at 11:39 pm
I took the Sun story to mean that 6:5 crapjack is making more and more inroads into Vegas, displacing more 3:2 blackjack tables. In other words, that it wasn’t a new phenomenon, but that it’s getting worse.
However, in rereading the story, I see where it’s so poorly written and edited, that the story can be interpreted either way.
Written by Disco Stu on June 19, 2010 at 1:13 am
Wait… don’t they read their own site? I don’t want to get sued lvrj-style, although the link below is from June 18, 2003, exactly SEVEN years ago.
http://m.lvsun.com/news/2003/nov/13/taking-a-hit-new-blackjack-odds-further-tilt-advan/
Written by BigRedDogATL on June 19, 2010 at 1:26 am
Rex what Rubin meant by saying that the Casinos couldn’t make overhead on 3:2 versus your arguement that they thrived on 3:2 for decades, is that the current Casinos have massive mortgages and debt obligations to pay for the massive resorts of today. They didn’t have that type of overhead in the 60s-80s or even the 90s.
If MGM Mirage or Harrahs could build a modern mega-resort today for the costs that it would have been in the 70s, then they could afford to have 3:2 Blackjack, 20x odds on Craps, $4.95 Prime Rib and Lobster Tail dinners, and Superstars in the showroom with $20 tickets.
I just wonder if some of the older casinos in other parts of Nevada, such as Reno, aren’t the better gambling venue these days. Rex you need to take a bus up to Reno and check it out and let us know.
Written by Paladin on June 19, 2010 at 3:08 am
This is why I only play Blackjack at the El Cortez, 3:2 single and double deck games.
Written by keith on June 19, 2010 at 3:51 am
i keep reading in the article that disco stu posted that they shouldn’t call 6:5 “blackjack” and that they should go thru legal channels to get it called something else.
a better idea: each and every blackjack table needs a card/signage stating the following:
payout on a natural
what you can double down on
if you can resplit aces
if you can hit after you split aces
the number of times you can split
give us the basics right up front. if video poker can post a pay table, why can’t blackjack? i know it’s not a “pay table”, but it tells you all the ins and outs that affect how you play the game, hence how you get paid.
or are they too scared that people might shop around and find a better game?
Written by keith on June 19, 2010 at 3:56 am
and i really don’t take offense to the quote “Sometimes it’s OK to have sucker bets if the suckers are enjoying themselves.” either.
roulette is a game based on sucker bets. so is the entire middle section on the craps table. every time i go to a casino, people play these all the time.
the smart gambler won’t play them. but then again, i have to reemphasize the term “smart gambler”.
or is it “smart gamer”, since we’re not technically gambling, but gaming?
eccccchhhhhhhhh
Written by hail2skins on June 19, 2010 at 4:11 am
On the one hand, the statistic presented that 25 percent of all Strip blackjack tables are 6-5 counters a lot of people who say that you can ONLY find 6-5 on the Strip. On the other hand, it is a bit depressing that one out of every four tables on the Strip have this crap game.
I’d love to see someone break down the percentage of 6-5 games by corporation (i.e. what percentage of Harrah-s-owned properties tables are 6-5), as well as by denomination. I also wonder what percentage of downtown’s tables are 6-5.
No doubt about it, the 6-5 phenomenon and higher table limits were the results of the mergers. I remember being able to play $5 tables at Bellagio and Mandalay in the late 90s soon after those places opened.
Rex, hope that your prediction of every table below $25 being 6-5 doesn’t come to fruition.
Written by wrxrob on June 19, 2010 at 5:47 am
another reason to stay in Delaware, where BJ pays 3:2….. AND the dealer must STAND on soft 17.
Written by JamminJ on June 19, 2010 at 8:00 am
Seeing how slots are the majority of most casinos… sucker bets is nothing new. No matter what the serious gambler feels… 6:5 is here to stay. Most of Vegas are your casual visitors… once every few years at best… they are not going to trot around town to look for best odds (spending cab fare or they precious few hours they are there).
Written by tully on June 19, 2010 at 1:36 pm
For anyone interested in a pretty current summary of who has what in terms of blackjack in LV, the Wizard of Vegas website has the June 2010 conditions. This website is from the guy who does Wizard of Odds.
There is still quite a bit of 3/2 in LV, but what the survey doesn’t note is when CSMs are used. Quite a few of the 3/2 games are multideck shoes—-double deck 3/2 usually starts at higher limits..
Written by FleaStiff on June 19, 2010 at 4:14 pm
Now if we had decent journalists maybe they would ask that expert about South Point… you know, the place that spreads oodles and oodles of Blackjack at 0.46% and 0.64% house edge and doesn’t have any 6:5 abominations anywhere in sight ever. They don’t seem be in any danger of closing either.
And as far as Party Pits need six to five odds, I want you all to know that a pole is not all that expensive an item for the casino to purchase.
Written by Cathy in Albuquerque on June 19, 2010 at 4:56 pm
Dewey, Cheatum, and Howe – you should go with them….
Written by keith on June 20, 2010 at 1:57 pm
“Dewey, Cheatum, and Howe ” – nah, just their subsidiary firm, BOGU LLP.
(Bend Over, Grease Up)
Written by Andy Steiner on June 20, 2010 at 9:07 pm
“Zender, a former casino manager and Nevada gaming regulator, says he is advising casino clients to avoid 6-5 games because he thinks they will eventually drive away more business than they generate.”
Wait. A Nevada Gaming Commission regulator has casinos for clients?
I sure hope that’s just a piss poor way of phrasing that Zender is assigned to regulate certain casinos.
Written by greg on June 22, 2010 at 5:59 am
I just returned from 10 days in vegas and have found an even worse Pay at South Point. the dealer does not look under an up ten, ok, have seen that before, not happy but I played, If you both have BJ you lose! No tie, I asked the dealer and called the pit over, yup not a tie, a loss if the dealer turns over BJ after the action is done.
Written by fremont4ever on June 26, 2010 at 2:32 am
As always, interesting stuff, Rex.
As far as conditions being better in Reno, I’ve been there several times in the past year, mostly at the Peppermill and Atlantis. The rules aren’t especially great, but you can have all the single or double deck 3:2 BJ you want for $5 minimums (occasionally $3 in the mornings).
Also, from the article Disco Stu:
“The Horseshoe, for example, still offers one of the city’s best single-deck games — and no 6-5 tables.
“This is the way we’ve done business for 50 years, and there’s no plan to change it anytime soon,” a Horseshoe spokeswoman said.”
(end quote)
Two months later, they were shut down,. HET bought them, and they introduced 6:5 games to the casino now known as Binion’s.