Rex

And Bingo Was Its Name-O

May 31, 2009

This morning, I did something I swore I would never, ever, ever do again.

I played “Limit Poker”.

Actually, I don’t so much detest Limit Poker as I do “Low Limit Poker”.

What is “Low Limit”?

Everyone has their own definition, but for me it’s 2/4, 3/6, and 4/8.  Limits above four eight are playable on some skillful level, but it is important for me to have the “all-in” play in my arsenal, should the need arise.  Without it, quick double, hit-and-run cards is almost impossible to play.

I’ve always maintained that Limit Hold’em is an entirely different game from No-Limit, however, after talking to a friend this weekend, I realized that I may no longer be qualified to offer an opinion on the matter.

Why?

Because I have not played any form of Limit Poker in nearly three years.  Not one, single, solitary hand.

It was entirely possible that I formed my opinion far too early in my Poker “career”, and that with a few more years under my belt, I might posses slightly more experience and wisdom about Poker which would allow me to see the Limit Game in a different light.

Not only that, but a buddy of mine swears to me that he is able to grind out a nice supplemental income each month playing Low Limit Poker, and frankly, I don’t believe him.  I’m not talking behind his back.  I called him a liar to his face.  In the good natured and ball-busting way that friends do, of course, but really and truly … I don’t believe him.

Imperial Palace

Imperial Palace

Imperial Palace

Imperial Palace

Imperial Palace

Imperial Palace

Imperial Palace

Imperial Palace

Imperial Palace Casino

Imperial Palace Casino

Since Sunday morning is typically when I schedule my “income” Poker sessions, I decided to revisit this game in of all places, The Imperial Palace Poker Room.  Why?  Because my friend swore up and down that this room had the most “fish”.  I loudly protested “What [maternal parent fornicating] non-fish plays Limit?”, but I was again assured that I was misguided.

I arrived at the IP Poker Room, and strode up to find that Limit Poker was indeed being dealt.  To be exact, it was 2/4 Limit only.  Oh joy of joys, the greater of two evils.

The first thing I noticed when I was seated was that nobody seemed to be enjoying themselves at all.  Nobody was talking and everyone was just kind of staring at the table with a blank expression or a frown.  The other thing I noticed was that everyone who plays Low Limit Poker is old.  At 40 years old, I’m no spring chicken, but I was still the youngest person at the table.  The minimum age was probably 50, and there was no maximum age.  I’m pretty sure that some of the players at the table had actually died 12 years ago, but their bodies had somehow rigor-mortized over to the IP.

Imperial Palace Poker Room

Imperial Palace Poker Room

Imperial Palace Poker Room

Imperial Palace Poker Room

Imperial Palace Poker Room

Imperial Palace Poker Room

I drew a seat between a bald guy who didn’t speak under any circumstances, and a blue haired lady with a voice ravaged by decades of smokable tobacco use, who vocally complained about everything.  When I first got to the table she was already yelling at the waitress (something about too much ice), and when I sat down she looked at me with evil grandmotherly scorn, although I have no idea why.  She was just kind of … angry.

Anyway, as I was trying to get into the action, I realized that I had actually forgotten how to play the game.  After thousands of consecutive No-Limit sessions, Limit is a bit confusing.  “Wait, is it $2 to call?”, “How much can I raise?”, “Oh, I have to wait until the next round?”, “But if he raises four dollars, I can re-raise to eight right?” … I felt as if I was playing in my first live Poker game all over again.

The players were not amused at my idiocy, but the dealer chuckled each time.  You could tell that he would rather be Christopher Walken’s proctologist than a Two Four Limit Dealer.

Angry blue hair (ABH for short) was especially annoyed by my neophyte behavior and eventually admonished me to “take a class before sitting with real players”.

I felt compelled to reply with this female reproductive organ beginning with the letter “c”.

“Real players are allowed to raise more than four f**king dollars”, I said in a voice barely louder than a whisper.

Apparently she had her hearing aid dialed to 11, because she immediately requested my ejection from the room.  Even after the dealer said “watch the language please” (with a very bemused look on his face), ABH demanded that the floor be called.

So, the game stopped for a solid two minutes as ABH explained that I had spoken a bad word.  When the floorman eventually asked if I had used profanity,  I informed him that there was no such thing as profanity (which is something that I firmly believe).  When he asked me if I had “used the F word”, I admitted that I had.  “Please don’t do it again”, he said.  “No problem”, I replied.

When the next hand was dealt, I peeked at my AQ suited, and immediately declared “all-in”.  I did this just to anger ABH, and it worked.  She once again called for my ejection, but at this point I had finally loosened up the table.  Everyone except ABH was either smiling or chuckling, and it became apparent to me that the mood of the table before my arrival was probably because ABH was a major buzzkill.  They seemed to enjoy the fact that I was thumbing my nose at her self-appointed gynocratic rule at the $2/$4 kiddie table.

The fun was short lived, though.  ABH got the last laugh.

I lost my entire buy-in.  Albeit slowly.

There was 7-way action minimum on every deal, and because of this, I had pot odds on every hand.  Everyone did.  There was no reason to fold.  When you look at your hand to find 5-3 offsuit, then look up to see $14 in the pot, and it only costs you $2 to call preflop … how can you not take a shot?

The flop probably won’t come 5-5-3, but it could.  All you need is two 5’s, two 3’s, or one of each to come out by the river, and you probably win.  And, of course, you will see the river.  Why wouldn’t you?  You constantly have a favorable pot to bet ratio.

Several times I was dealt premium hands in the pocket … KK, QQ, AK, and there was nothing I could do to narrow the field.  Four dollar raises simply don’t scare anyone who isn’t holding 7-2 or 8-3 offsuit.

Premium hands almost never stand up in Low Limit because damn near everyone sees the river.  People fold after the river when the obvious contenders bet it out, but folding before the river simply doesn’t happen.

I’m sorry, but this is not Poker!

2/4 Limit is Bingo.  Period.

You throw your chips in and a winner is declared on the river based on the cards you have in your own hands.  That’s it.  There is no skill to this game whatsoever.  Before the cards are dealt, everyone has a 10% chance of winning any given hand and the game is played like a slot machine.  There seems to be a tacit agreement among all players that everyone has a 10% chance of winning, and everyone is expected to just throw their chips in until they do win a hand.  Everyone more or less takes turns winning.

“And the river is … five of spades” …. “BINGO! I made my inside straight as evidenced by my whopping $4 bet”.

Jesus Coke Sniffing Christ!

I remembered that old people love Bingo, and this is obviously why they like Low Limit Poker.  It requires no thought whatsoever.  You just sit there and hope your two cards match the cards that the Bingo calling pulls out of the drum.  I’m not even sure why people even bother to look at their own cards.

Then, of course, there’s the rake.

In order to defeat the rake, you have to win more than 10% of the time.  This requires pure luck, and no skill.

To sum it up, I do not know how anyone could ever make any kind of consistent money at this game.  If you have a four leaf clover wedged in your anal cleft, and are really lucky, then you could make money … but the same could be said of Blackjack or any other game.  I still don’t understand how my friend makes money at this game, or even if he does, so I remain skeptical.

After today, I realize that my opinion of the game was correct, and that it is every bit as pointless as I thought it was.  It’s not so much a game as it is a way to kill time.

Today also represents the last time I will ever play Limit Poker.  At least until I am fifty years old, senile, and intimidated by a cranky post-menopausal chimney.  That seems to be a prerequisite for succeeding at this game and winning against “real” players.

Or maybe I should just take a class.

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13 Comments »

  1. Written by Wacky on May 31, 2009 at 8:33 pm

    You can not beat 2/4 over the long haul, the rake will beat you up. Probably the smallest game that you can beat and still make a reasonable amount of money is 8/16 or so. I play 20/40 and 40/80 limit holdem regularly and at this level it is possible to average over 2 BB/hr over the long haul if you’re an excellent player, and 1BB/hr if you are are just a good player.

  2. Written by Lena on June 1, 2009 at 6:01 am

    Fixed limit hold ‘em is a card game played with money. NL hold ‘em is a money game played with cards. Low limit is pure luck. Not much skill there- I play poker for the game of skill, rather than gambling. I don’t know how the low fixed limit grinders (and there are many) here in Vegas do it day after day. Takes a *special* kinda person to sit there and do that. I

    I bet you had fun though :)

  3. Written by LuvinLasVegas on June 1, 2009 at 6:55 am

    I detest it when I’m gambling and someone nearby has a bad attitude. It spoils it for everyone and sometimes messes up my game. When I’m on a roll the last thing I want is some party pooper complaining and annoying me.

  4. Written by Derby Lane on June 1, 2009 at 8:16 am

    I think you described every early morning 2/4, 3/6, 4/8 limit game in the USA along with Florida’s renowned straight $2 game. Grinder is the only word for anyone trying to scratch out a profit at the level you wrote about. Wacky is correct about the rake eating any profit up, eps. the $6 rake and jackpot drop at Harrah’s. I think the only profit is going to come from hitting a jackpot hand or just breaking even and earning comps at the amazing rate of $1 an hour. Enjoy the IP buffet everyone.

  5. Written by loftypines on June 1, 2009 at 4:31 pm

    i laughed outloud 3 times reading this!!! 2-4 does suck at times but i still love playing this game while in Vegas. where else can you sit down play something you find entertaining for 3-4 hours, get loaded, more than likely have a few good laughs and still not lose a couple of hrs work wages. i even recognize the guy with the hat who’s back is to the camera from my last trip. thanks REX

  6. Written by SPRUNT on June 2, 2009 at 8:16 am

    I think the key to limit (

  7. Written by Rex on June 2, 2009 at 8:30 am

    There is a bug that cut everything off in the comments after any ampersand “

  8. Written by Tom on June 3, 2009 at 9:51 am

    At least the low limit players are able to have fun and not lose their entire stack in one hand. Doing that very often has bad consequences for many players who become former poker players. It is too bad most No limit snobs can’t learn to enjoy the game of limit where they don’t have such a huge risk. Limits from 6-12 and up offer the possibility of winning nice sums and they require the use of skills not seen at the low limits.

  9. Written by Rex on June 3, 2009 at 6:19 pm

    Tom,

    None of these people were visibly having any fun, but I am sure it was just the crowd.

    Pointing out that the game requires no more skill than Blackjack is not being a “snob”, IMHO. It’s pointing out very real differences between two versions of a game that share the name “poker”.

    It does need to be stated that low limit is more or less Bingo, and is played VERY differently than no limit. Again, this is not snobbery, but a simply observation. Any NL player sitting at a 2/4 table will be extraordinarily disappointed.

    I also don’t agree that there is less risk in 2/4. I think there is more risk. I lost more than I would have in NL due to the overwhelming luck factor. Having your premium hands relentless drawn out on by seven other players does not entail less risk. You cannot make Aces (or any hand) stand up in low limit unless you really are flat out lucky.

    The only area in which I agree with your “risk analysis” is on a bad beat. A bad beat in limit will certainly not be as bad as a bad beat in NL.

    Then again, you really aren’t going to make much money at limit either. You’ll either tread water or slowly bleed due to the rake. There is also a chance that you will get very luck and win 20% or more of the hands you play, but it’s not likely.

    Some people find this entertaining (as they do Bingo and the Lotto), and that’s perfectly cool. The more power to them. I don’t begrudge people who play the game for fun, but pretending that it requires any kind of poker “skill” is little more than fantasy.

    I concede that higher limits require increasing levels of skill, but low-limit bears entails little actual strategy or decision making.

  10. Written by Huddler on June 5, 2009 at 3:41 pm

    Limit poker absolutely sucks and has virtually NOTHING in common with NL. The most boring, grinder, horse shit of a game Ive ever played. And the players are typically tight assed, coupon clipping, blue hairs who bitch incessantly. You described every low limit poker game that ever existed. Ive had the misfortune of sitting down to limit poker a couple times I was completely bored out of my mind. But I also hate Bingo and Keno so it makes sense that I would detest this slop. Your friend was lying if he claims you can grind out a living at low limit poker.

  11. Written by briguyx on June 5, 2009 at 4:38 pm

    Just started playing some internet poker recently and your low limit story reminds me of that. You might as well see the flop (or go all the way to the river) because so many times something like a 2-5 unsuited will be a winning hand because of the way the computer deals…

  12. Written by Gary Stein on June 9, 2009 at 10:20 pm

    2/4 limit is all luck and absolutely no skill. It’s favored by the unskilled bored cottonheads that have nothing better to do with their time.

  13. Written by Jimmy on October 29, 2009 at 6:02 am

    Sorry, but the idea that there are “too many bad players to win” doesnt float with me. I used to lose on small stake tables until I changed my outlook on it. As Mike Caro once said “its not about what you think your opponents should be doing, its what they are doing.” Not to sound like a know-it-all (I really am not – trust me!!!) You can make a pretty high win rate p/h (like 5 bbs p/h) on loose-passive fishy tables – sure youll get sucked out loads but those same players will overcall and go too far without the goods. I find its best to a) always respect passive players raises esp. multi-way (even if they simply “cant have 7-4″ in a raised hand) b) Loosen up/protect preflop (down to J-8s in most positions but not 5-3o loose) c) Dont bother raising in early position with several players to act behind – they will ALWAYS call and your raise will incentivise them to chase. Selectively reign in the preflop aggression always considering no. of players position d) No continuation betting unless H-U, or 3-way (sometimes) on a represent flop. e) Very little post flop bluffing (as above) f) Cap flops with strong draws and raise the turn too g) Forget longshots just because the pot odds are there – let them play junk whilst you preserve your stack h) Preflop raising – really depends on no.of players -if 6 behind I wouldn’t bother raising anything. (I know its “wrong” but it works) If middle/late 77 , if late as per NL but with no cont bets unless the flop is good . All in all, playing against a large field of calling stations is about picking your spots and respecting any action (depending on the board – it will tell you if your middle pockets are worth calling down.) Its about being more selective with your aggression and giving your opponent credit for any two in the hole. Cram the pot with nuts draws, or combo draws, and fold top pair when you feel its been sucked out (try save the aggression with top pair until the turn without allowing draws)

    Anyway, you sound like a good NL player so youll probably stick with that. I agree that FL is a different beast entirely. I enjoyed reading this blog -its killed a little time at work which is always good, so lemme thank you for that. Good luck on the tables.

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